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- Autos News

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On this "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan: 

Click to browse full transcripts from 2025 of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan."

MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington.

And this week on Face the Nation: Tensions build in the Caribbean. Plus, is there an end in sight to the government shutdown?

As he pushes for peace in Ukraine and the Middle East, President Trump is leaning in the opposite direction on Venezuela, with U.S. forces killing 29 people accused of drug trafficking in six strikes on vessels since September, and the president offering a stark warning to Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro.

(Begin VT)

DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): He's offered everything. You're right. You know why? Because he doesn't want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) around with the United States.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Meanwhile, massive crowds of protesters took to the streets in dozens of cities, rallying against Trump's policies, as the government shutdown drags on for a third week.

We will get the latest from Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, plus Republican Senator Katie Britt, who helped the president unveil a new plan to expand access to fertility treatments.

Then: As Trump's tariffs continue evolving, we will get an update on the global economy from the president of the European Central Bank, Christine Lagarde.

Finally, a conversation with three college professors on how the Trump administration's demands to align schools with its priorities could change their jobs, their institutions, and their students.

It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.

Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation. We have a lot to get to today.

And we begin with Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, who's here in studio with us.

Good morning to you, Senator.

SENATOR MARK KELLY (D-Arizona): Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: A lot to get to. I want to start on what you are seeing as a member of Senate Armed Services and the Intelligence Committee.

There are about 10,000 U.S. forces now that are built up in the Caribbean area either on ships or in Puerto Rico. Three B-2 – B-52 bombers flew near Venezuela last week. There have now been six maritime strikes by U.S. Special Operations forces.

What is this adding up to? Is the Trump administration planning regime change in Venezuela?

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, I hope not. Regime change hasn't ever really worked out well for us as a nation where we have supported that, whether it was in Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, Afghanistan. It doesn't go the way we think, and it puts a tremendous number of Americans in harm's way, the U.S. military, the guys flying those missions now in B-52s close to the coast.

Those folks are at risk, members of the United States Navy now in this operation, which is clearly, traditionally a law enforcement operation, now escalating to something maybe, as the president talks about, regime change. I think this is the wrong move for this president. The Coast Guard has the resources to do this.

MARGARET BRENNAN: To interdict drug traffickers.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: To interdict drugs. That's the way this has traditionally been done, and I do worry about the legal authorities or lack thereof that the United States military has to conduct these kind of strikes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you have been briefed on what legal authorities are being invoked. Do you think they are insufficient at this point?

SENATOR MARK KELLY: They – they had a very hard time explaining to us the rationale, the legal rationale, for doing this and the constitutionality of doing it, when you consider what – the law of warfare, especially at sea.

It was a very convoluted argument. It also included, by the way, a secret list of over 20 narco organizations, drug trafficking cartels. But they wouldn't share with us the list. So the brief we got was – had a tremendous number of holes in it, and they had to go around and around to give us the legal rationale for doing this.

And what I worry about, Margaret, are all these young military personnel that might find out months from now that what they did was illegal. And then you get to, what are we trying to accomplish here? We want to keep fentanyl out of the United States.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: And I don't know how widely known this is, but those routes through the Caribbean on boats are predominantly used to bring cocaine to Europe.

MARGARET BRENNAN: To Europe, not to U.S. shores.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Yes. That's right. Fentanyl tends to come from a different way. And we do want to keep fentanyl out of the United States.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But to this point you just said, the legality of what's being done, CBS reporting indicates that the commander who was running Southern Command, Admiral Alvin Holsey, was pressured to leave his command post early just a year into a four-year post and that there were tensions with Secretary Hegseth that were leading up to that departure, which Hegseth characterized as just a retirement.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You speak to the top officers. Can they, with confidence, refuse unlawful orders without fear of retribution or even losing their pensions?

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, I don't know about losing their pension, but they should.

This is more important than any single person. This is about our democracy at this point. And those admirals and generals, they need to speak truth to power. I have had conversations with the most senior members of our military about this specific thing. They cannot be breaking the law.

Doesn't matter if the president or the secretary of defense tells them to do something. If it's against the law, they have to say no. They're not required to follow an unlawful order. So we expect that from them. I don't know the exact circumstances, why the admiral quit. He hasn't said publicly yet. I expect, in time, we're going to find out more.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you think he did quit? It wasn't just a retirement suddenly?

SENATOR MARK KELLY: I don't know. He – they could have forced him out. He could have quit. He could have said, hey, you're not accepting my advice. You need somebody else in here.

I don't know. I hate to speculate about it. He had a long service in the U.S. military…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Thirty-seven years.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: … highly decorated and a tremendous leader. I appreciate his service to this country.

All of us…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: … all U.S. citizens would be better served if this administration listened to the advice of those military leaders, especially the secretary of defense, who thinks he is really good at this. He should have never had this job. He was unqualified for the job.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well…

SENATOR MARK KELLY: And, in my view, the president should have fired him multiple times.

MARGARET BRENNAN: On Ukraine, you have been an outspoken supporter of it. Some of the pilots train in your state.

After President Zelenskyy met with President Trump on Friday, he said they sort of agreed to disagree on whether to get these long-range missiles, these Tomahawks that would allow them to fire into Russia. Where does that stand? President Biden wouldn't do this either.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Yes.

So I spoke to Zelenskyy three weeks ago in New York right after his meeting with Donald Trump.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: And we talked about Tomahawks in that meeting, much longer range, over 1,000 miles, 700-kil – 700-pound warhead. They're really good.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Game-changing?

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Game-changing.

The president said he would consider giving them these…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: This weapon system, and then he had a conversation with Vladimir Putin.

And I think it's important for people to recognize Vladimir Putin is a former KGB officer. He is a master manipulator. The president has one view. Then he talks to Vladimir Putin, and he changes his story on this. Of course Putin does not want Ukraine to get…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: … a longer-range missile that could go after targets deep into Russia, beyond Moscow and St. Petersburg, by the way. It can range targets much further. It's very accurate. It's a very survivable weapon.

And Putin has a conversation with him and those weapons are now off the table. Hey, I think Ukraine can handle – if we can give them enough rounds, if we have them in our inventory and enough launchers…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Ground launchers are rather new to the system, something we got rid of for a long period of time.

They have demonstrated their ability to operate a sophisticated weapon system like the F-16. They could handle this, and it would help.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Zelenskyy says they're going to continue to try to persuade President Trump.

I have to ask you about the shutdown. The Republican leader, John Thune, has offered to sit down with Democrats to discuss Obamacare, but on the condition that Democrats end the shutdown. He posted this on social media.

Can you bank this as a win and agree to start negotiations?

SENATOR MARK KELLY: That's what we want. We want negotiations on how to fix…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is this enough?

SENATOR MARK KELLY: … how to – I didn't look at his tweet, but what we need is to fix this skyrocketing premium.

They're going to go up on November 1 for people. They can't afford it. People in my state…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Either way, they're going up .

SENATOR MARK KELLY: I have talked to so many people.

This woman Emily (sp?), whose husband's a pastor, who has three kids, says, without the Affordable Care Act, she cannot have insurance for her children. They don't get it through his work. So what we need to do is fix this health care premium issue and open the government.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But don't you need to do that before November 1, when premiums go up?

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you going to end the shutdown before November 1?

SENATOR MARK KELLY: I would like to. I would like to – we should – we could – we should be able to wrap this up this week if they will sit down and have a negotiation with us.

The president has spent one hour negotiating this issue with leadership in Congress.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: That's it, one hour. They need to get in the room and stay in the room until we can hash this out.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: The president has said he wants to fix this premium thing and he wants the government open. That's what we want.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we will see if there's progress this week. Senator, thank you for your time.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Republican Senator Katie Britt, who joins us from Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

Welcome to Face the Nation, Senator.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT (R-Alabama): Thank you so much for having me, Margaret. I appreciate it. Look forward to being on here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to talk about a lot of things, but let me just pick up where Senator Kelly left off on the shutdown.

He said, hey, you could all hash this out this week. Leader Thune made that offer. I know you have said you also are concerned insurance premiums are going to go up, whether Congress extends the tax credits related to Obamacare that Democrats are campaigning for or not here, basically.

Do you want this extended?

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: First off, Margaret, we need to reopen the government. Democrats need to come to the table and do the right thing.

Just as I have been traveling the state this weekend, I have heard countless stories of people who are not getting a paycheck, whether it's our men and women in uniform or those who serve alongside them, or whether we're talking to veterans or we're talking to just a number of people, when we're looking what's happening with WIC.

There are a lot of people that are being affected by the Democrats playing politics, and they need to actually do what's right, and that is work for the American people. And so getting the government open is number one. So we need to vote on this C.R. and open the government back up.

We have also given alternatives like end government shutdown. And I think you will see this week, if the Democrats don't come to the table, saying, look, a Shutdown Fairness Act, making sure that the people who are working are actually getting paychecks, because, Margaret, these have real consequences for American people.

And when we're talking about the ACA, look, Leader Thune said it best. We have always said we will have a conversation about this. We believe that you can walk and chew gum at the same time. Democrats, for some reason, don't think that that's possible.

They need to come to the table, open the government back up, and then we're happy to have a conversation about the broken system that they created and help them get out of their own mess.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you do personally think the federal government should be offsetting some of these costs? Because we looked at the numbers, and I think it's like 130,000 Alabamans are at risk of losing insurance if the tax credit goes away.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: Margaret, let's be honest about this. Let's go back to Obamacare, 2010.

This is the Affordable Air – Affordable Care Act that even "The Washington Post" has said was never really affordable.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: You go to 2014, and what you see there though was increases made by the Democrats.

And then these increases that we're talking about right now, insurance companies have said only account for about 4 percent of what they're talking about increasing in 2026. The underlying issue is the brokenness of Obamacare. That is the problem.

And so, when you think about this, you have got the 2021 premiums that they have given to everyone. Do you understand Democrats are actually asking for us to continue premiums that are going to millionaires in some cases? We have got to be more – more responsible with taxpayer dollars.

And if you want these health care systems to even be able to work, then we have to have a larger conversation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: But this is absolutely, totally ridiculous to sit here and say we're afraid people cannot afford their health care, but at the same time we're going to deny them their paycheck.

Those two things do not match up. And Democrats need to actually be honest about it and get the government back open. And we're happy to have conversations, as we have always said, just as Leader Thune reiterated this week.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You were in the Oval Office discussing another health care matter with President Trump this past week.

He credited you with announcing – well, basically explaining to him that February 2024 decision by an Alabama court that ruled frozen embryos are children. He called it a bad decision, and we all probably remember what it did for those families trying to go through fertilization treatment at that time.

With the changes that were announced, who's going to be able to afford this now?

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: Look, millions more people are going to be able to afford this because of President Trump's leadership.

From the very first time I talked to him about this, Margaret, he has been steadfast and unwavering, understanding that there are people from coast to coast that have been praying to be able to start their family or expand their family.

And because of infertility, here in the United States, we have seen one in eight families that are actually struggling with infertility issues. We have got about 9 percent of men, 11 percent of women who are facing these challenges.

President Trump believes in being obviously the president that is helping hardworking Americans, helping parents, helping families. He's turned the Republican Party into that, which is so exciting. And we want to make sure that they're going to be able to do that at a greater scale.

And so that's exactly what this will do. Millions more will have access. And, additionally, we're going to drive the costs down.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: And so I talked this weekend actually with a friend of mine who came up to me and said, "I cannot tell you how much I appreciate this," because the affordability issue was the impediment.

And she actually had to go off – off – off – over shores…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: … overseas to try to be able to bring life into this world. So it's exciting for people like her.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: And I have had grandparents and parents and moms and dads tell me what a game changer this is for them as they start and grow their family.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, one cycle of IVF can cost between $15,000 to $20,000, and lower-income women obviously have a challenge with that.

But, during the campaign, President Trump said he was going to make the government pay for it or make insurance companies pay for it. So do you think that the Affordable Care Act, that Obamacare, for example, should cover it, or is it too controversial for conservatives, who have a moral issue with IVF?

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: Well, Margaret, first, I mean, the Affordable Care Act is broken. And that is what we're seeing right now. I mean, you have seen the increases that people will see in 2026, 80 percent of those are just Obamacare, Affordable Care Act-related.

And so we clearly see that the underlying structure of this program is not sustainable and is not working for the American people. No one is paying less now that Obamacare is in place.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: And so we have got to be super honest about that.

We also have to make sure that we're being responsible moving forward. What President Trump has done is made this accessible to millions more people. He's going to continue leading on this issue and so many others…

MARGARET BRENNAN: It's still not free. It's still not free, right?

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: … and actually support hardworking families.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, do you want to legislate, though, to force it to be?

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: Well, and what we're doing too – what I want to do is, I want as many people as possible to have opportunity to bring life into this world, and that's exactly what this is doing.

We will continue to work on this issue. We also want to support families as they have children and are able to – in this environment right now, we hear from people all the time, whether it is bringing life into this world, whether it is the childcare cost, just the affordability aspect.

And I am so proud to see President Trump lead on these. Actually, if you look at the Working Families Tax Cut, Margaret, this is the very first time we have actually increased the childcare tax credits…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: … and also the DCAP tax credits in 20 years in some instances and 40 in others.

So we're trying to make sure that people can not only bring life into this world, but that it's more affordable when they get here, because we want people to start and grow their families.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Really…

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: That's what this is doing. This is just the start, and look forward to continuing to work for the American people.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Really quickly, you have been trying to label Russia a state sponsor of terrorism for stealing Ukrainian children.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Does the president's decision to meet with Vladimir Putin endanger your efforts to get this bill passed?

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: Look, I am grateful for President Trump's efforts on this.

If you look back, we are in this war because of President Biden. If President Biden had sent the weaponry needed to Ukraine on the front end, when we saw Russia building up, we wouldn't be in this war to start with. When you're looking at what President Trump has done, he has met with Zelenskyy more times in his nine months in office…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: … than President Biden did his entire time.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But do you have support to bring it to the floor?

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: So, these conversations help us to have resolution.

The – the – well, the first lady obviously has been leading on this. We have built up support. We're having a hearing next week. I think you will see this come to the floor if there is not a resolution in the short order, because we believe in bringing these children home.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: Margaret, it's about 20,000 children that have been stolen from their homes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR KATIE BRITT: This is something everyone should be able to get behind and Vladimir Putin should pay the price for.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Katie Britt of the state of Alabama, thank you for your time this morning.

Face the Nation will be back in a minute. Stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to the Middle East, where new attacks broke out overnight in Gaza.

Debora Patta has the latest from the region.

DEBORA PATTA: We're seeing the first heavy clashes between the Israeli Defense Forces and Hamas since the cease-fire began.

The IDF says militants opened fire on their forces stationed behind the agreed line in Rafah. Hamas says they were not involved and have lost contact with fighters on the ground there.

(Begin VT)

DEBORA PATTA (voice-over): The cease-fire is under threat, as both sides accuse the other of violations. Nine Palestinian civilians were killed after Israeli forces opened fire on a vehicle they say posed imminent danger when it came too close to them.

(MAN SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

DEBORA PATTA: "A truce is only on paper," said this mourner. "On the ground, we are still dying."

As excavation teams continue to search for the remaining hostage bodies, Israel insists Hamas is deliberately stalling their return. Families and friends gathered in Tel Aviv last night, urging the U.S. to finish the job. In retaliation, Israel has closed the Rafah Crossing from Egypt into Gaza indefinitely. It was expected to reopen, allowing Palestinians to exit for medical treatment.

The delivery of aid into Gaza has been stepped up, but the World Food Program's Antoine Renard says it is not enough and called for all eight crossings to be opened.

ANTOINE RENARD (World Food Program): That is a real issue, because you can't have only two entry points to reach two million people. It's impossible. It's as if now you're going to Manhattan and you have two bridges, and that's it. Imagine how complicated it would be.

DEBORA PATTA: The second phase of the cease-fire process includes disarming Hamas and establishing an international governing authority. Right now, there is a power vacuum. And Hamas is back on the streets, it says, to restore law and order.

On Monday, there were videos of armed men, including Hamas fighters, executing Palestinians they accused of being criminal gangs armed by Israel.

(End VT)

DEBORA PATTA: And following those clashes between the IDF and Hamas, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has instructed security officials, in his words, to act forcefully against terror targets. And we hear from Gaza the drones and fighter jets are back in the skies.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That's Debora Patta in Ramallah.

An Israeli source tells Autos News that the U.S. was notified ahead of the strike in Rafah.

In tonight's 60 Minutes, Lesley Stahl speaks exclusively with U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff and adviser Jared Kushner, the two key negotiators in the fragile peace deal between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.

(Begin VT)

LESLEY STAHL: Hamas now is using weapons to execute people that they perceive as their enemies in Gaza. And they're also using their weapons to reestablish themselves as the entity that is governing Gaza. They're moving into the vacuum.

JARED KUSHNER (Former Senior Presidential Adviser): Hamas right now is doing exactly what you would expect the terrorist organization to do, which is to try to reconstitute and take back their positions.

LESLEY STAHL: Right.

JARED KUSHNER: The success or failure of this will be if Israel and this international mechanism is able to create a viable alternative. If they are successful, Hamas will fail and Gaza will not be a threat to Israel in the future.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: You can see more of the interview in a new episode of 60 Minutes tonight at 7:00 p.m. or after football.

We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We're joined now by the president of the European Central Bank, Christine Lagarde. The ECB sets interest rates for many countries in the European Union, which is America's largest trading partner.

Good to have you here.

CHRISTINE LAGARDE (President, European Central Bank): Lovely to be back, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: From where you sit, how would you describe the state of the global economy?

CHRISTINE LAGARDE: In transformation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Transformation.

CHRISTINE LAGARDE: Transformation, I think caused by a couple of things. One is the tariffs, which have changed the map of trade around the world and reconstituted new alliances and reformed the way in which we trade with each other. I think the second major transformation is the impact of artificial intelligence on everything we do from data management to dating and everything in between.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Absolutely, and it's changing how we even receive the data itself…

CHRISTINE LAGARDE: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: … to indicate what's happening.

But the stock market has been up and down. I want to talk to you on the other side of this commercial break about some of the specifics with these trade wars and what else you're seeing in Europe. But we're going to take a quick break here. And we have more questions, but we have to come back in just one moment.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with the president of the European Central Bank, Christine Lagarde, and a conversation on the future of higher education.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to "FACE THE NATION."

We return to our conversation with European Central Bank President Christine Lagarde.

You said the economy is this transformation. S&P global forecasts, Trump's tariffs are going to cost global businesses upwards of $1.2 trillion this year with a lot of the costs passed along to consumers themselves.

You've said that many economists overestimated the impact of Trump's tariffs. Does that mean you think we've moved past the point of risk, or are we yet to feel the pain?

CHRISTINE LAGARDE (President, European Central Bank): I think we're yet to feel the pain. What we observe – I'll give you some numbers. From Europe to the United States, our goods to the U.S. consumers had a tariff of 1.5. With the tariff that was decided by the U.S. administration, it's gone up to 13 percent. So, the question is, where does this additional 11-ish percentage point go? At the moment, it's one-third on the exporter, so the European company, one-third of the U.S. importer, and one-third of the consumer.

What will happen, though, is that these two-thirds born by two corporates essentially, the exporter and the importer, is based on the squeeze of the margins. How long are they going to put up with the squeeze of the margin? To be seen. And when they don't, because it's becoming too tight, then it will be on the consumer. So, it's a question of time.

MARGARET BRENNAN: How much they can stomach the hit to their own profits before passing it along?

CHRISTINE LAGARDE: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, there are talks happening we understand between the world's two largest economies. The Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, said on social media he's going to meet with China's vice premiere in the coming days. This was after he called the negotiator unhinged recently, and President Trump said that starting November 1st there will be new tariffs as retaliation for Chinese restrictions on rare earth exports. These are the largest economies in the world. Where does this go? How damaging does this get?

CHRISTINE LAGARDE: First of all, I would discount a little bit of the positioning at the moment because this is typical of negotiating tactics on both sides. Typical. You show your muscles and you say that you are ready to kill. I'm exaggerating, of course.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

CHRISTINE LAGARDE: But people will have to come to the table because it's the interest of both economies, despite the hostility that there is between the two.

But China is using an advantage that it has built over the course of time by accumulating rare earth and the ways to refine rare earth and then to sell it to the rest of the world. They have very, very strong trading position on that front, and they're going to use it, which is why I think that on the other side, the consumers, that is the United States, Europe and a few other countries around the world, we should, you know, join forces and be a purchasing force on the other side of the table of a selling force.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, exactly to that point, there has been frustration on the American side of it that Europe hasn't been standing lockstep with the United States when it comes to China. That China has leverage over Europe here.

CHRISTINE LAGARDE: Well, China currently has leverage against most countries that consume rare earth. And I think on the front of rare earth, the Europeans and the Americans are in the same boat, and they are rowing in the same direction.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But it's other items that you see space (ph) on?

CHRISTINE LAGARDE: Well, I think, you know, it's not for me to say. I'm just a central banker. But the – the European authorities and the U.S. administration see it slightly differently. I think it's the – the U.S. would see a blanket force. I think the Europeans are more interested in targeting specific industries or specific sectors where they think that it will make a difference. So, it's a question of tactics that they will be discussing, I'm sure.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you have also said recently that you think investors have begun to question what the dollar would still warrant its status at the ultimate safe haven currency. I mean the American dollar is one of the strongest weapons, frankly, that – that the administration has to use.

Do you think that it is the rise of cryptocurrency that is most threatening to that, or why are you worried?

CHRISTINE LAGARDE: I see signs that the – the attraction of the dollar is slightly eroded. And future will tell whether there is more erosion of that. But when you look at the rise of crypto is number one. When you look at the price of gold. Gold is typically in any situation the ultimate destination for safe haven. Price of gold has increased by more than 50 percent since the beginning of the year.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, people are worried (ph) –

CHRISTINE LAGARDE: That's a clear sign that the trust in the reserve currency that the dollar has been is and will continue to be is eroding a bit.

Now, in addition to that, we've seen capital flows outside of the U.S. towards other destinations, including Europe. So, you know, for a currency to be really trusted, you need a few things. You need geopolitical credibility. You need the rule of law and strong institutions. And you need, I would call it a military force that is strong enough. I think on at least one and possibly two accounts, the U.S. is still in a very dominant position. But it needs to be very careful because those positions erode over the course of time. We've seen it with the sterling pound, you know, way back after the – after the war. But it happens gently, gently, you don't notice it, and then it happens suddenly. And we are seeing intriguing signs of it, which is why I think that having a strong institution with the Fed, for instance, is important. Having a credible environment within which to trade is important. So, volatility, uncertainty to the extent it is fueled by the administration is not helpful to the dollar.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, quickly on Ukraine. President Zelenskyy said he spoke to you recently about using frozen Russian assets. What is fair use in your view?

CHRISTINE LAGARDE: I think fair use would consist of an operational loan that would be using cash balances as collaterals. And I think that the strength of the system should be based on everyone holding Russian assets to do the same thing. So, if all those countries holding assets that have cash balances available as collaterals go in the same direction of lending the money to Ukraine, to be repaid by Russian financing of the reconstruction of Ukraine, because Russia is the aggressor, then I think that that would go a long way in convincing Russia that it has to come to the table to negotiate.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Christine Lagarde, always great to hear your insights.

We'll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to higher education. Universities are resisting the Trump administration's proposal to reward schools that commit to President Trump's priorities. The White House has requested that nine universities sign a nine-page compact or risk forgoing federal benefits. Tomorrow is the deadline for feedback. And so far, not one college has agreed to sign and at least six have rejected it.

The compact, reviewed by Autos News, states that universities pledge not to use race or sex in admissions and hiring, freeze tuition for five years, cap international enrollment at 15 percent and require standardized testing.

There's also a pledge for all employees to abstain from speech related to politics.

On Thursday, we spoke with three professors who represent the views of their respective faculties. Jeri Seidman of the University of Virginia, Leila Hudson of the University of Arizona, the Miki Turner the University of Southern California. We began by asking about the administration's request for schools to create an environment that doesn't, quote, "punish, belittle and even spark violence against conservative ideas."

(BEGIN VT)

JERI SEIDMAN (Professor, University of Virginia McIntire School of Commerce): So, belittling speech is obviously not something that any university would want. However, as a state university, we are required to abide by the Constitution. And so, while a private university could decide to limit the free speech of faculty, staff or students if that university decided to, as a state institution, nobody can require the University of Virginia to limit the free speech or any other constitutional right of faculty, staff or students.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Professor Hudson and Professor Turner, how do you all think your university is going to interpret that kind of guidance? Do you think, first of all, that that is happening on your campuses? And then, how is that supposed to be regulated with this federal mandate?

MIKI TURNER (Professor, USC Annenberg School for Communications and Journalism: I am on a task force, a provost (ph) task for academic freedom. Academic freedom and freedom of speech are two different things. But what we're working toward is to, you know, find that common ground between academic freedom, what professors and students can or cannot do in the classroom. And I don't think that this initiative will happen at USC. I can't – I can't see a situation where we would want to limit what we say, how we say it, and what we do as a university.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Professor Hudson, can you go back to this idea that is being introduced here, that in the view of the Trump administration, this is actually a problem that needs to be fixed, that there is belittling or violence against conservative ideas on university campuses.

LEILA HUDSON (Professor, University of Arizona School of Middle Eastern and North Africa Studies): Well, I would push back against that. Again, as a public research university, we are an open marketplace, if you will, of ideas. So, you're going to hear all kinds of speech. We have institutional rules that prevent harassment and certainly violence.

But in terms of trying to regulate the speech, that, indeed, will violate, not only the academic freedom that makes our universities great, but the constitutional rights of the university community.

So, I think that, again, this will require a lot more discussion and, indeed, resistance. And I've been very heartened, both on our campus and across the country, to see people rising up against anything that would silence any voices.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But in terms of the specific accusation that there's a problem of, you know, belittling and sparking violence against conservative ideas, do any of you object to trying to counter that, or is it that none of you believe that that's actually even a real problem?

JERI SEIDMAN: The University of Virginia has taken the ability of people to cordially or speak to each other with courtesy but differing opinions very seriously. And we have a number of initiatives on grounds to try to advance that. So, we definitely think it's something important and we want to make sure that those, you know, isn't happening on our campuses. I don't think it's happening to the extent that it gets reported.

But the thing that's really important is that each university should determine how those are implemented on their universities, what their issues are and have the decentralized decision-making ability to decide whether their university has an issue and how to deal with that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Professor Hudson, you were talking about the open marketplace of ideas here. And that is referring to the language in the compact that talks about the need to foster "a vibrant brant marketplace of ideas." But in these terms, it's suggesting that that doesn't exist. That the overwhelming, you know, persuasion of the professors on campus are liberal. That seems to be the accusation here. Do you deny that that is an issue?

LEILA HUDSON: Well, I don't think it's an issue that the federal government needs to weigh in on or any other level of government. Indeed, we have traditions, we have understandings, we have an ironclad commitment to the principles of free speech that mean that any systematic or chronic silencing of any individual's voice or perspective would immediately be identified and rectified by more speech, not by government intervention. So, I'm very comfortable that we can continue to improve climate on campus. But the act of introducing government regulation into that absolutely undermines and sabotages that project.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Professor Seidman, in terms of where the Trump administration's compact came from, there were a lot of influences. But one of them, according to the man himself, is billionaire Mark Rowan, the CEO of Apollo Global Management. And he said he helped write the compact because "without government involvement, reform at universities will be difficult," he argues. He says there have been "government mandates" on things like "diversity, on discrimination and student discipline," so why view these at any different?

Why is he wrong?

JERI SEIDMAN: We were talking about academic freedom. And I think in our ability to search for the truth in research, we also have responsibilities in the classroom that are different than you would experience in a corporate setting. And so, I read the compact differently than he does. I think the thing that I struggle with the most about the compact is the idea that it rewards loyalty as opposed to focuses on advancement of the truth.

As a cancer survivor, I want federal research funds to go to the universities and the professors who have the best ideas to cure cancer. That's the way to advance knowledge. And academics, that's really – we are truth seekers. The compact says, you know, truth seeking is a core foundation of institutions of higher education. And I completely agree with that portion of the compact, it's just the implementation of that truth seeking that I think we differ on.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the – the compact says that if this proposal is not signed on to by the university, they may choose to "forgo federal benefits." If you do sign on, there's a chance of increased funding and federal partnerships. So, it's not explicitly threatened, but it's strongly suggested that that would be the consequence. That's how – how your – how the university understands it?

JERI SEIDMAN: That's how I believe most faculty understand it that I have heard from.

Something interesting is that, even faculty who have grants have reached out to me and said, you know, we – we want the grants to go to the places that have the best ideas. We don't want to have special treatment. Faculty are truth seekers. And so, we don't – we don't want special benefits. Even if that means that our university is not favored because others do sign on, we all want the best ideas to be advanced.

MARGARET BRENNAN: On the state government front, there's also pressure at - - in Virginia and in California. In Virginia, Democrats in the state Senate wrote, "if UVA signs this thing, there will be significant consequences in future budget cycles. Out in California, Professor Turner, Governor Newsom vowed to cut off billions in state funding if anyone signs this thing. And the White House says that's like California"endorsing discrimination, tuition hikes and confronting speech with violence." If you're between those two pressure points, what do you do?

MIKI TURNER: That's – that's a great question because I really have complete empathy for our college presidents who have to deal with this situation right now because they are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place because of all this political ping-pong.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Professor Seidman, on the pressure from the Democrats in the state of Virginia, is that helping or is that hurting?

JERI SEIDMAN: Pressure from both sides definitely feel – definitely feels it.

I think the difference between the pressure from the state level and the pressure from the federal level is the state funds that come from the university are the university's to determine how they use. The federal funds that we get are either for students for financial aid or are for specific grants. So, the threats to remove funding are a little bit different in that regard.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Professor Turner, one of the things that got a lot of attention from both parties during the campaign was also just the high cost of college and university tuition right now.

MIKI TURNER: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: USC is the highest tuition of any private university in this country. We were looking at it before. And I was floored. It cost $75,000 a year in tuition. It gets close to $99,000 a year, inclusive of expenses. There are a lot of parents who would hear, oh, a five-year freeze in tuition and be glad that it went into effect.

MIKI TURNER: Exactly. And that's one of the components I'm in agreement with, about the freeze on tuition.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But it also wants to cap the number of international students that you have, which would impact USC because you're above that 15 percent threshold.

MIKI TURNER: Absolutely.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Does one premise fight the other? Can – can you bring the cost down if you cut out the university students who are paying full boat coming from overseas?

MIKI TURNER: Not at all. Not at all. We would not be able to do that because, you know, they – they essentially come with cash in hand. And not only that, do they add to the financial pot, but they also add to the collective perspective. And so, we want those students there from every country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I also want to bring up one of the things that was raised here, and that is, we know the Supreme Court struck down race-based admissions. One of the first points in this compact addresses the issue of preferential treatment, as they refer to it, based on identity. They list, sex, nationality, gender, religion, race or political views.

Professor Turner, you work on recruitment, I understand. How does this impact recruiting students?

MIKI TURNER: Yes. If that goes into effect, that's going to affect the way I do things. But I don't think that it's going to have a huge impact on the way USC really does things. You know, we actively recruit, you know, students from all walks of life, of all races. And I don't think that, you know, we should stop that because, again, you know, we're thinking about these students. And we're thinking about their growth and how they are going to go out into the world and change this world for the better. And to – in order to do that, they need to engage with different types of people with different cultures. And so, hopefully, you know, this won't have that impact on our school because, you know, if we can't – we really can't afford to have that happen.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Professor Seidman, the University of Virginia's president was forced to resign because of a Department of Justice investigation related to DEI commitments. Do you get any indication that the federal pressure on UVA is going to go away?

JERI SEIDMAN: Two of our open investigations with the Department of Justice that related to admissions around DEI have been closed. So, that is good news. And those were closed based on information we provided that apparently satisfied the concerns about race being used in admission.

I think this particular item of the compact would impact UVA. UVA has always had a very holistic approach to admissions. We find talent to be much broader than just test scores and grades.

(END VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Since we spoke with the three professors, USC and the University of Virginia have rejected the compact. No word yet from the University of Arizona.

We'll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: For the first time in decades, Autos News is no longer reporting from inside the Pentagon. Our reporters, alongside those from dozens of networks, newspapers and wire services emptied out their booths and workspaces this past week. The journalists exited rather than agree to a 21-page list of new restrictions which would prevent them from soliciting information that has not been pre-approved by the government.

The Department of War, as the current administration calls it, has a $1 trillion budget and employed 3 million military and civilian employees. CBS will continue to report from outside the building, but journalists will no longer have the day-to-day, face-to-face contact with the military that helps the public understand what U.S. troops are facing.

Secretary Hegseth once promised the most transparent administration ever. But as one former defense official told us, "The American people are going to know a lot less about what their Department of War is doing."

That's it for us today. Thank you for watching. Until next week. For "FACE THE NATION," I'm Margaret Brennan.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)